dnd 5e – Is it possible to Clone a Simulacrum?

Regrettably evidence now counters the answer i had previously accepted, above. Please note this Stack Exchange discussion (below) – with valuable errata:

Can a Simulacrum reproduce?

This new(ish) errata specifies Simulacrum is both a ‘creature’ and a ‘construct’. As such it is a non-living creature similar to undead and golems.

The spell Clone specifies the target must be ‘living’ (and ‘medium’ sized – sorry: gnomes, goblins and halflings). Thus one cannot Clone any kind of Flesh Golem either. Creative DMs might house-rule a Clone of a Flesh golem as a duplicate of whatever random person’s body part ‘Igor’ had ransacked, from whatever local graveyard. If allowed, this would create an inert yet complete body in a storage bucket – with no soul or spirit to take it over. The new body would be fresh meat unless a ghost, demon or magic jar could take it over.

I digress here for clarity of concept: the Flesh golem cannot be cloned. Neither can a Simulacrum nor even a fleshy Shield Guardian.

The jury may still support a successful Clone on a Simulacrum via a ‘non-stress’ version of Wish – as this duplicates spells without ‘requirements’. Is requiring one’s target to be living a requirement?

“You do not need to meet any of the requirements for the spell.”

In fact, are BOTH ‘living’ &/or ‘medium sized’ requirements? If so, one could then clone undead gnomes by using a basic ‘Wish’.

Please let me know if i have missed something. If not, i shall un-check the answer i like and then up-check my own answer, this one, that disappoints me.

dnd 5e – What do you get when making a Simulacrum of a True Polymorphed creature?

The Simulacrum spell states:

You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is within range for the entire casting time of the spell. The duplicate is a creature, partially real and formed from ice or snow, and it can take actions and otherwise be affected as a normal creature. It appears to be the same as the original, but it has half the creature’s hit point maximum and is formed without any equipment. Otherwise, the illusion uses all the statistics of the creature it duplicates, except that it is a construct.

True Polymorph states:

Choose one creature or nonmagical object that you can see within range. You transform the creature into a different creature (…)

Creature into Creature. If you turn a creature into another kind of
creature, the new form can be any kind you choose whose challenge
rating is equal to or less than the target’s (or its level, if the
target doesn’t have a challenge rating). The target’s game statistics,
including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the
new form. It retains its alignment and personality.

If you make a Simulacrum of a True Polymorphed creature, do you…

  1. Get a copy of the original creature which happens to be true polymorphed, so dispelling the true polymorph, or reducing the true polymorphed form to 0 hit points, will yield you a simulacrum of the original?

  2. Get a copy of the true polymorphed version of the creature?

(For simplicity, assume that both the initial and true polymorphed versions of the creature are humanoid or beast.)

dnd 5e – Is there any rule that prohibits a character from using Wish to cast Simulacrum on a hostile humanoid?

Yes, you could make a Simulacrum of another creature, even an unwilling one. The spell doesn’t require a willing target, saving throw or spell attack. Merely that the target is within touch-range for the casting.

You don’t even need Wish for this; if you can somehow keep a creature in place for 12 hours you can already make a duplicate of an unwilling target. (For example because they are sleeping, knocked out, imprisoned, or in a coma)

Wish just makes it a lot easier because the casting time is so short. But nothing in the Simulacrum spell prevents its use on hostile targets. You’ll end up with a duplicate of your enemy except they’re friendly to you and have half of their hit points.

(Keep in mind the spell does not say it also knows everything the original knows. If this was a plan to steal a secret from them, it might not work.)

dnd 5e – Does the phrase “the simulacrum lacks the ability to learn” have any implications beyond those explicitly described in the spell description?

The spell simulacrum states:

The simulacrum lacks the ability to learn or become more powerful, so it never increases its level or other abilities, nor can it regain expended spell slots.

The first part of this sentence is giving me trouble – “the simulacrum lacks the ability to learn”. Intuitively, it seems that the rest of the sentence explains what exactly is meant by this, that the simulacrum cannot gain levels or learn new abilities.

How broad are we to understand this statement to be? Can it learn other things, such as peoples’ names? Does a simulacrum remember things that happen to it? Can it learn tactical information during combat and apply that information to make better decisions? These are just some examples of things that one might understand to be within the scope of “learning” (not things I necessarily expect an answer to address directly, but ideally I should be able to rule on those things based on an answer given).

Does the statement “the simulacrum lacks the ability to learn” impose any limitations on the simulacrum beyond those explicitly stated in the spell description?

dnd 5e – Is there any rule that prohibits a character from casting Wish into Simulacrum on a hostile humanoid?

Yes, you could make a Simulacrum of another creature, even an unwilling one. The spell doesn’t require a willing target, saving throw or spell attack. Merely that the target is within touch-range for the casting.

You don’t even need Wish for this; if you can somehow keep a creature in place for 12 hours you can already make a duplicate of an unwilling target. (For example because they are sleeping, knocked out, imprisoned, or in a coma)

Wish just makes it a lot easier because the casting time is so short. But nothing in the Simulacrum spell prevents its use on hostile targets. You’ll end up with a duplicate of your enemy except they’re friendly to you and have half of their hit points.

(Keep in mind the spell does not say it also knows everything the original knows. If this was a plan to steal a secret from them, it might not work.)

dnd 5e – If a clone creates a simulacrum is the original one destroyed?

So I have a BBEG who has a simulacrum (Simon) who has been his assistant for many many years.

Now BBEG is able to clone himself and I would also like him to be able to create simulacra of key towns folk that he kidnaps, gets enslaved by an aboleth, and then puts back. The simulacrum acts as the body double of the towns folk until they return. Then a few days later he does it again.

Usually if the simulacra was his then when he makes a new one it dissolves, which is a bit obvious, so I wondered. If a previous clone of the wizard had made the simulacrum, then died and come back as that clone, could that be classed, under RAW as a different caster casting simulacrum?

dnd 5e – Can a 17th level sorcerer kill all demons with Simulacrum and Wish?

AL problems:

(source)

The key problem is :

We aren’t using Wish to cast Simulacrum using the “replicate a spell” feature, since that would require being in range of Xanar to cast it. Instead we use the second option to wish for the simulacrum to be made no matter how far away he is. This isn’t asking for much beyond the basic, and so should be a valid wish. This does incur the 33% chance to not be able to cast Wish ever again, but that’s for your simulacrums and thus doesn’t matter.

Because:

No Copies of a Copy.

Simulacrums can’t cast simulacrum, or any spell that duplicates its effects.

and

You Are You; and So Is He.

If a simulacrum you have created casts wish, both you and your simulacrum suffer the stress associated with casting the spell — including the risk of being forever unable to cast wish again. The inability to cast wish extends to any simulacrum you create in the future. (p. 8)

Each of which is designed to deal with essential parts of this otherwise-legal plan.

General Problems:

tl;dr: ℵ1 is greater than ℵ0

Be Xanar, a 17th sorcerer. At level 17 you chose Simulacrum as your new spell known

You can’t cause that’s a Wizard only spell. However, you be able to do that with a permissive DM or with an appropriate homebrew sorcerous origin. You can also just cast it directly via wish, which you can cast multiple times if you have the right Epic Boon(s).

Next problem:

  1. The first simulacrum uses the rod to cast Plane Shift, dropping the rod just before it leaves. The next simulacrum then takes it’s turn, picking up the rod (interaction), casting Plane Shift (action), and then dropping the rod as well before it leaves (free action). In this way, the rod travels along the infinite line of simulacra, allowing all of them to cast Plane Shift.

You almost certainly can’t do this. There’s no time between casting and the effects happening. You could use Contingency for this (there are ways to have more spell slots around), except Plane Shift is too high of a level. Instead, you need to be friends with or True Polymorph into a Metallic Dragon variant spellcaster that knows Plane Shift (for reasons. You can also coerce one into service with Gate+Dominate Monster or whatever), and have your simulacra using twinned wish duplicating simulacrum. Despite the fact this makes no sense (Wish-duplicated spells shouldn’t be twinnable since you aren’t casting them), it is legal via Sage Advice Compendium errata stuff:

Can my sorcerer use Twinned Spell on a spell duplicated by the casting of a wish spell? And if so, how many sorcery points does it cost? Yes, you can. It costs the number of sorcery points appropriate for the level of the spell you’re duplicating.

and so by spending 7 sorcery points your simulacra can duplicate both you and the dragon (or a simulacrum of her), or you and a simulacrum of you.

Assuming you take one extra day or use up your 8th level slot or have a relevant magic item or class feature to cast Simulacrum again without using up your 9th level slot, that also solves the need to be using the cheat-y wish instead of the normal one: since the first casting gets you two simulacra and they each still have wish ready, the first one can copy you and the second one, and the second one can copy two of those copies, and so on. One out of every 9 copies needs to be a dragon.

You could have done this with Gynosphinxes instead, but you can’t simulacrum those because they can’t turn into a beast or humanoid while retaining the ability to turn back like Metallic Dragons can. Since draconic spellcasting has no components, the dragon simulacra can warp parties of 8 Xanar simulacra to the Abyss without the need for rods.

Sidenote– you have infinitely many Xanar in the Material Plane for a bit here, which might be uncomfortable but doesn’t have any mechanical penalties and can be dealt with by having the dragons warp sooner if it is a problem for some reason.
Next problem:

  1. Infinite simulacra of Xanar appear at every point in the Abyss, and cast an infinite number of Eldritch Blasts upon every demon there.

No, Infinite simulacra of Xanar appear at infinitely many points in the Abyss, and cast their infinite Eldritch Blasts upon infinitely many demons there. Your infinity and the Abyss are not guaranteed to be equal in size. In my games, for example, the Abyss is infinitely larger: you have only ℵ0 simulacra while the Abyss has ℵ0 layers with ℵ1 squares on each layer.

Other people run the Abyss as only having ℵ0 or some smaller number of points or spaces on each layer. In that case, this might be a larger number than the number of demons. Even so, there’s no guarantee that your ℵ0 is the same size as their ℵ0. It might be bigger, smaller, or something else entirely– the game does not in any way define the superstructure of the Abyss. Comparing infinities is not easy, that’s why ∞ – ∞ is undefined, not 0.

To solve this problem for sure, you would need a system to generate an uncountable number of simulacra. That is, you would need the demons to not be able to apply Cantor Diagonalization to your onslaught and, in so doing, show that at least one demon wasn’t attacked. I am not sure if this can be done or how you would do it.

Even if you did it, your sets would each be ℵ1 large, and you’d still have an ∞ – ∞ situation for your DM to define the result of. To get around that, you’d need to incorporate the source of the demons into your simulacrum creation, so that the number of simulacra can be shown to be greater than the number of demons at infinity and the result of the subtraction can be medium-well-defined.

You also need a mapping function to get your simulacra to not all be bunched onto the same points, but that’s a smaller problem likely solved by assuming a 1-to-1 correspondence between Material Plane spaces and Abyss spaces, somewhat supported by the explanation of how planes work in the DMG.

Even then you are gonna miss infinitely many demons, though because of the next problem:

  1. Every demon takes an infinite amount of force damage, and dies.

Not necessarily. Demons in antimagic fields won’t, and, in fact, no, Xanars can’t warp into such spaces! So that’s infinitely many demons this won’t kill.

Also, you’re rolling initiative and even with infinitely many rolls you won’t beat any creature who rolls higher than it is possible for you to roll or who has special abilities allowing it to go first. Any creature who goes before you might take actions to elude your army, for example by casting antimagic field or plane shift or wall of force or meld into stone or doing anything else that negates infinitely many eldritch blasts. And any creature who doesn’t go before you still might escape with reactions unless they are surprised (which, admittedly, seems likely, but is still not guaranteed). And those who don’t might, like with antimagic field residents, be immune anyway for some other reason.

That said, this will still kill infinitely many demons, so it may well still be worth a try. Just watch out for the infinitely many survivors who immediately plane shift in on your position and give you a bad day.

dnd 5e – Can a 17th level wizard kill all demons with Simulacrum and Wish?

AL problems:

(source)

The key problem is :

We aren’t using Wish to cast Simulacrum using the “replicate a spell” feature, since that would require being in range of Xanar to cast it. Instead we use the second option to wish for the simulacrum to be made no matter how far away he is. This isn’t asking for much beyond the basic, and so should be a valid wish. This does incur the 33% chance to not be able to cast Wish ever again, but that’s for your simulacrums and thus doesn’t matter.

Because:

No Copies of a Copy.

Simulacrums can’t cast simulacrum, or any spell that duplicates its effects.

and

You Are You; and So Is He.

If a simulacrum you have created casts wish, both you and your simulacrum suffer the stress associated with casting the spell — including the risk of being forever unable to cast wish again. The inability to cast wish extends to any simulacrum you create in the future. (p. 8)

Each of which is designed to deal with essential parts of this otherwise-legal plan.

General Problems:

tl;dr: ℵ1 is greater than ℵ0

Be Xanar, a 17th sorcerer. At level 17 you chose Simulacrum as your new spell known

You can’t cause that’s a Wizard only spell. However, you be able to do that with a permissive DM or with an appropriate homebrew sorcerous origin. You can also just cast it directly via wish, which you can cast multiple times if you have the right Epic Boon(s).

Next problem:

  1. The first simulacrum uses the rod to cast Plane Shift, dropping the rod just before it leaves. The next simulacrum then takes it’s turn, picking up the rod (interaction), casting Plane Shift (action), and then dropping the rod as well before it leaves (free action). In this way, the rod travels along the infinite line of simulacra, allowing all of them to cast Plane Shift.

You almost certainly can’t do this. There’s no time between casting and the effects happening. You could use Contingency for this (there are ways to have more spell slots around), except Plane Shift is too high of a level. Instead, you need to be friends with or True Polymorph into a Metallic Dragon variant spellcaster that knows Plane Shift (for reasons. You can also coerce one into service with Gate+Dominate Monster or whatever), and have your simulacra using twinned wish duplicating simulacrum. Despite the fact this makes no sense (Wish-duplicated spells shouldn’t be twinnable since you aren’t casting them), it is legal via Sage Advice Compendium errata stuff:

Can my sorcerer use Twinned Spell on a spell duplicated by the casting of a wish spell? And if so, how many sorcery points does it cost? Yes, you can. It costs the number of sorcery points appropriate for the level of the spell you’re duplicating.

and so by spending 7 sorcery points your simulacra can duplicate both you and the dragon (or a simulacrum of her), or you and a simulacrum of you.

Assuming you take one extra day or use up your 8th level slot or have a relevant magic item or class feature to cast Simulacrum again without using up your 9th level slot, that also solves the need to be using the cheat-y wish instead of the normal one: since the first casting gets you two simulacra and they each still have wish ready, the first one can copy you and the second one, and the second one can copy two of those copies, and so on. One out of every 9 copies needs to be a dragon.

You could have done this with Gynosphinxes instead, but you can’t simulacrum those because they can’t turn into a beast or humanoid while retaining the ability to turn back like Metallic Dragons can. Since draconic spellcasting has no components, the dragon simulacra can warp parties of 8 Xanar simulacra to the Abyss without the need for rods.

Sidenote– you have infinitely many Xanar in the Material Plane for a bit here, which might be uncomfortable but doesn’t have any mechanical penalties and can be dealt with by having the dragons warp sooner if it is a problem for some reason.
Next problem:

  1. Infinite simulacra of Xanar appear at every point in the Abyss, and cast an infinite number of Eldritch Blasts upon every demon there.

No, Infinite simulacra of Xanar appear at infinitely many points in the Abyss, and cast their infinite Eldritch Blasts upon infinitely many demons there. Your infinity and the Abyss are not guaranteed to be equal in size. In my games, for example, the Abyss is infinitely larger: you have only ℵ0 simulacra while the Abyss has ℵ0 layers with ℵ1 squares on each layer.

Other people run the Abyss as only having ℵ0 or some smaller number of points or spaces on each layer. In that case, this might be a larger number than the number of demons. Even so, there’s no guarantee that your ℵ0 is the same size as their ℵ0. It might be bigger, smaller, or something else entirely– the game does not in any way define the superstructure of the Abyss. Comparing infinities is not easy, that’s why ∞ – ∞ is undefined, not 0.

To solve this problem for sure, you would need a system to generate an uncountable number of simulacra. That is, you would need the demons to not be able to apply Cantor Diagonalization to your onslaught and, in so doing, show that at least one demon wasn’t attacked. I am not sure if this can be done or how you would do it.

Even if you did it, your sets would each be ℵ1 large, and you’d still have an ∞ – ∞ situation for your DM to define the result of. To get around that, you’d need to incorporate the source of the demons into your simulacrum creation, so that the number of simulacra can be shown to be greater than the number of demons at infinity and the result of the subtraction can be medium-well-defined.

You also need a mapping function to get your simulacra to not all be bunched onto the same points, but that’s a smaller problem likely solved by assuming a 1-to-1 correspondence between Material Plane spaces and Abyss spaces, somewhat supported by the explanation of how planes work in the DMG.

Even then you are gonna miss infinitely many demons, though because of the next problem:

  1. Every demon takes an infinite amount of force damage, and dies.

Not necessarily. Demons in antimagic fields won’t, and, in fact, no, Xanars can’t warp into such spaces! So that’s infinitely many demons this won’t kill.

Also, you’re rolling initiative and even with infinitely many rolls you won’t beat any creature who rolls higher than it is possible for you to roll or who has special abilities allowing it to go first. Any creature who goes before you might take actions to elude your army, for example by casting antimagic field or plane shift or wall of force or meld into stone or doing anything else that negates infinitely many eldritch blasts. And any creature who doesn’t go before you still might escape with reactions unless they are surprised (which, admittedly, seems likely, but is still not guaranteed). And those who don’t might, like with antimagic field residents, be immune anyway for some other reason.

That said, this will still kill infinitely many demons, so it may well still be worth a try. Just watch out for the infinitely many survivors who immediately plane shift in on your position and give you a bad day.

pathfinder 1e – Can a simulacrum be healed by any means other the ‘complex process’ outlined in the spell?

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spells – Can a simulacrum heal non-hit point damage?

The spell Simulacrum, while open to interpretation on many fronts, is very clear on how to heal (repair) a damaged simulacrum, requiring a complex and costly process and a lab.

A complex process requiring at least 24 hours, 100 gp per hit point, and a fully equipped magical laboratory can repair damage to a simulacrum.

The spell mentions hit points directly, but a simulacrum can be damaged in many other ways such as ability damage, non-lethal Damage or even ability drain. It got me to wonder how to treat such types of damage.

I was thinking it would either :

  • Be immune to those types of damages (highly unlikely)
  • Heal those types of damages as a normal creature (by resting or using spells)
  • Heal those types of damages in a lab using the same process but without the cost (as the only cost mentioned is for hit points)
  • Be stuck with any such damages

I haven’t been able to find any definite answer on the internet.

How does a simulacrum treat those types of damage ?